tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post7458224832588989199..comments2024-02-26T00:37:47.131-08:00Comments on Broomstick Chronicles: Accountability, or Lack ThereofBroomstick Chronicleshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11217890674112142957noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-83356318705204624892012-10-10T23:22:36.553-07:002012-10-10T23:22:36.553-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-19785023416348789312012-09-06T09:09:35.589-07:002012-09-06T09:09:35.589-07:00I didn't eiher. But it is apparently a page to...I didn't eiher. But it is apparently a page to air (or muddy) grievances. Not particularly constructive!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05632323698026742121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-69758118380308502522012-09-06T02:28:42.955-07:002012-09-06T02:28:42.955-07:00Thanks, Shya. You say, "I think it is very im...Thanks, Shya. You say, "I think it is very important to have flexible structures in place to handle conflict as well as other things."<br /><br />I'm good with flexible structures and, in general decentralization. But when a trad comes to be viewed as monolithic, as trads are wont to do, how then to assure any kind of accountability? I don't have the answer.<br /><br />"my local wider pagan community has just started a FB page entitled "City" Pagan Fight Club, perhaps in part stirred by transgendered folk taking ritual roles. At first I thought it was a joke, but sadly no."<br /><br />Sorry, don't know what a fight club is so I'm not understanding your meaning. Perhaps someone will enlighten this unhip old ladyBroomstick Chronicleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11217890674112142957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-65201941854219609052012-09-06T02:01:35.817-07:002012-09-06T02:01:35.817-07:00@ Shya wrote: "I do think discussing the deta...@ Shya wrote: "I do think discussing the details of second hand events on a public forum is problematic."<br /><br />How does this differ from a family where even the victims of abuse insist on keeping the abuse a family secret? (Sunlight is the only disinfectant.)<br /><br />On the whole, dysfunctional organizations are just plain incapable of cleaning their own houses. This goes in spades for organizations with noble ideals. No one here as said anything that makes me think Reclaiming might be a rare exception to this principle -- a pig that can actually fly. <br /><br />The only choices the wider community -- in this case the magical community -- has are two. It can tolerate the organization's dysfunctions. Or it can discuss them, details and all, on public forums -- even at second hand. Errors of fact will soon enough be corrected in public. <br /><br />Organizations, no matter how noble their ideals, don't get to tell the rest of the world to butt out while they clean up their messes. If the rest of the world really does butt out, the messes don't get cleaned up. Almost everyone prefers the devil they already know to the angels they have not yet met.Robert Mathiesenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09189466855334778278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-27025520468085685182012-09-05T16:14:14.545-07:002012-09-05T16:14:14.545-07:00And to be clear, I do think discussig the details ...And to be clear, I do think discussig the details of second hand events on a public forum is problematic.<br />ShyaAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05632323698026742121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-4455397442356076082012-09-05T14:51:42.085-07:002012-09-05T14:51:42.085-07:00Macha;
A whole lot of trashing about things people...Macha;<br />A whole lot of trashing about things people don't know was a reference to the responses to your blog. How quickly things deteriorate on the computer screen.<br /><br />I didn't catch the nuance the first read through, apologies, - yes having second hand reports made to you as some kind of "higher authority" would be awkward, and very energy consuming<br /><br />I think so much is regional and personality specific, and I think it is very important to have flexible structures in place to handle conflict as well as other things.<br /><br />And for sure Reclaiming is far from perfect, but I don't see anything else that attempts to operate with the same self-awareness or challenge to the overculture. Case in point - my local wider pagan community has just started a FB page entitled "City" Pagan Fight Club, perhaps in part stirred by transgendered folk taking ritual roles. At first I thought it was a joke, but sadly no.<br /><br />ShyaAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05632323698026742121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-19507853464275410292012-09-03T21:22:55.983-07:002012-09-03T21:22:55.983-07:00Macha said "Helen/Hawk, thank you, too, for y...Macha said "Helen/Hawk, thank you, too, for your comments.<br /><br />I see you saying something similar to what I've been saying for lo these 30+ years, and that I've written about extensively (see Witchvox, for one place), and for which I now hang my head in embarrassment at my naïveté and idealism.<br /><br />I say to you now: if you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you."<br /><br />Dear Macha, I wrote from my experience. Not shopping for a bridge at the moment, tho good to know where I can get one if/when I need one.<br /><br />I don't think I'm naive (and to tell the truth, it doesn't feel very good to be called that, in fact it feels like name calling). My experience is what I wrote from. But I will say, that my experience is very geographically based, w/out much interaction w/the San Francisco Reclaiming community. <br /><br />My post wasn't intended as a comment on you/your situation/your choices but rather on a specific post of Robert's. <br /><br />Helen/Hawknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-22402256961785290572012-09-03T00:08:41.716-07:002012-09-03T00:08:41.716-07:00Part 2
A: "If it doesn't serve you it is...Part 2<br /><br />A: "If it doesn't serve you it is totally ok to move on and find a tradition that does."<br /><br />You know, when conservatives told us to “Love it or leave it” in the late ‘60s, we replied, “Change it or lose it.”<br /><br />A: "The tradition doesn't have to change to meet one person's needs or expectations,"<br /><br />Hilarious.<br /><br />A: "There are obviously a lot of former Reclaimers (and current ones too) who are living with a chip on their shoulder, still dwelling in the situations of the past. It's time to let it go and move forward."<br /><br />Translation: “I don’t want you talking about this, so you should stop.” <br /><br />Thanks so much for your wisdom and advice. Let me see if I’ve got this right: there’s this group of people you don’t like and are about to leave, and you’re telling them how they should behave. This, of course, bears no resemblance whatsoever to the exact behavior you’ve been criticizing here in others.<br /><br />On the other hand, take your football and go home, Margaret. Don’t tell other people what they should or shouldn’t be discussing.<br /><br />A: "Oh and Sparky – "<br /><br />Ah, here we are at the heart of the message. Why didn’t you just say this to begin with?<br /><br />A: "I have found your responses to be so negative, baiting, and ugly," <br /><br />And I find your posts to be snotty, passive-aggressive, and smug. So what? <br /><br />I don’t care how you *feel* about my posts, and how I feel about yours is unimportant. Surface style doesn’t outshine content in everyone’s world. What is important – to me -- are the points people are discussing, and you’ve ignored (or avoided) all of mine. <br /><br />A: "I am keeping myself anonymous because I feel the need to protect myself."<br /><br />Oh, my gods. This takes the cake.<br /><br />Protect yourself? From *what*? <br /><br />Oh, you’ve found me out. I have stooges who go to people’s homes, hold guns to their heads, and make them read posts I’ve written that they don’t like, and then they have bad feelings. Mmmmmwhahahaha!!!<br /><br />Yes, folks, in the wonderful world of codependency, emotions trump reality. If Anonymous feels that she needs to protect herself from me, then I must really be dangerous. I’m sure that’s a very useful tool for you inside Reclaiming. Does everyone fall for it there?<br /><br />A: "No doubt you will use this as another way to show how Reclaiming is manipulative and shady."<br /><br />Actually is just shows me that *you* are manipulative and shady. <br /><br />A: "Blessings."<br /> <br />Oh, right, I forgot to add: hypocritical and pompous.<br /><br />Speaking only for myself, I say good riddance.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13264854362130669985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-59821124650117971592012-09-03T00:05:37.820-07:002012-09-03T00:05:37.820-07:00Anonymous said...
"I'm pretty much over t...Anonymous said...<br />"I'm pretty much over this entire situation and I won't be checking for further comments."<br /><br />So there’s a bunch of kids playing together in a local park. Little Margaret, the control queen of the group, finds she isn’t getting her way, so she says, “I’m tired of this. I’m taking my football and going home.” And off she stomps. What she wants is for the other kids to stop playing and take care of her (which means them doing what she wants), but instead they just keep on playing.<br /><br />Fine, Margaret. Take your football and go home. (I’m speaking only for myself here, of course.) There are always people on the web who need to make sure everyone knows how they feel about an issue -- as well as get in some good name-calling -- but don't have the courage to sign their names to their words. These people who are unworthy of inclusion in adult conversation.<br /><br />A: " What is great about Reclaiming is that it can be anything you make it."<br /><br />That statement pretty much tells you everything you need to know.<br /><br />A: "BUT you have to be willing... hear feedback about your own behavior, and offer it as well. It isn't a one way street."<br /><br />Funny, that’s just what Macha has been doing, and yet she’s catching all kinds of shit for it from a bunch of Reclaiming members (each speaking only for themselves, of course), none of whom seem to take very kindly to hearing Macha’s feedback. Why do you suppose that is, when you’ve just told us how important feedback is within Reclaiming?<br /><br />A: "I have noticed that some people posting things against Reclaiming on this page are also commenting on the Reclaiming community yahoo groups."<br /><br />Care to name names? *I’m* commenting both here and on a private Reclaiming Yahoo list. Did you think I was hoping no one would find out?<br /><br />A: "I wonder, will you continue to post and follow the conversations on these lists even though you are so obviously unhappy with this tradition."<br /><br />But I thought feedback was allowed, and even necessary, in Reclaiming.<br /><br />A: "Why follow the conversations of a group you don't want to be involved with. Is it only because of a need to stir the shit?"<br /><br />I recommend you click the “Back” button, and read Macha’s recent blog post, “Stirring the Cauldron.”<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13264854362130669985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-81506799143442320132012-09-02T14:49:14.903-07:002012-09-02T14:49:14.903-07:00Actually, Shya, as things turn out, it is not An a...Actually, Shya, as things turn out, it is <i>not</i> An admirable resolution done with integrity." There is a dark side that I have learned from having been copied on an email from PP to the individual in SH who is repaying the money. I'm awaiting permission from PP to explain this. <br /><br />There was <i>not</i> "a whole lot of trashing going on based on assumptions and prejudices rather than fact." <b>My facts are correct</b>; I checked them repeatedly, over a period of years and again immediately before posting this blog.<br /><br />You say, "First rule of anything - go to the source, rather than speak of what you don't know!" This is <i>exactly</i> what I did. PP never told me who the <i>individual</i> was who asked him to reserve the space, probably out of discretion and not wanting to single her out, so I couldn't take anything to her. And how do you take anything to a "leaderless" group like SH where no one wants to take responsibility?<br /><br />I'm surprised that you'd take this attitude, given our breakfast conversation in Philadelphia a few years ago. This is the kind of thing I was talking to you about when I told you that people bring these kinds of things to me. I don't know why. They tell me they do so because I'm an "elder." Perhaps they assume that by assigning me that role I can do something to change or rectify the things about Reclaiming that trouble them (or to seek redress). Obviously I can't. Gods know I tried for more years than most would have. Plenty of people kept telling me they wondered why I kept hanging on.<br /><br />Further, in the case of "Mover," I immediately advised two of Mover's mentors about what had happened, as I've done more than once when Mover has behaved inappropriately in public and on behalf of the trad.<br /><br />Further still, I have only detailed two incidents of lack of accountability in order to give hard, fact-based, irrefutable evidence of the many things I hear about. I have not mentioned any of the many questionable goings-on at WitchCamps that campers have brought to me because, although they may have been reported accurately to me, they are subjective. Others may have experienced the same things differently, possibly even positively.<br /><br />Since I have been <i>prevented</i> from teaching WC, there has been no avenue for me to observe, participate, or help improve teachings.Broomstick Chronicleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11217890674112142957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-88614921493849380292012-08-31T15:32:55.001-07:002012-08-31T15:32:55.001-07:00Thanks for summarizing the resolution of the SH ev...Thanks for summarizing the resolution of the SH event, Macha. An admirable resolution done with integrity.<br />There are some lessons here. <br />Most of all, I think, a<br />whole lot of trashing going on based on assumptions and prejudices rather than fact. <br />First rule of anything - go to the source, rather than speak of what you don't know!<br />ShyaAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05632323698026742121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-53897037634754343482012-08-31T02:58:39.389-07:002012-08-31T02:58:39.389-07:00UPDATE: Apparently, as a result of this blog entr...UPDATE: Apparently, as a result of this blog entry, someone did some digging and discovered the story behind the matter. As I suspected, the SH person had not remembered the event. That person is apologizing to PP and refunding the money he expended on SH's behalf. I'm glad to learn of this.Broomstick Chronicleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11217890674112142957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-82245496567563107842012-08-30T17:35:24.862-07:002012-08-30T17:35:24.862-07:00While I can not defend or deny the allegations of ...While I can not defend or deny the allegations of "Mover" being in an abusive relationship,(it wouldn't surprise me as I knew of whom the other party was and have since come to the realization that the significant other isn't one I now would associate with) there was still no excuse to not at least contact me to let me know what was going on. To completely cut off ties without explaination regardless of the reason for leaving is lacking of personal accountability. Perceptions are very powerful. I would have at least liked to hear from the person upon their dissaperance to offer an explaination. It would have made the situation less negative. My perception of Reclaiming had changed not for the better after that situation. I am an outsider, I hold no affiliations, but I can back up the second example as it involved me directly. I support Macha, and her decision, and am sympathetic as to why. Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-26953026362428458262012-08-30T17:22:09.436-07:002012-08-30T17:22:09.436-07:00I'm pretty much over this entire situation and...I'm pretty much over this entire situation and I won't be checking for further comments. I feel the the people who are saying things against Macha are being just as disgusting as some of the people who are writing on this page 'defending' her. <br /><br />What is great about Reclaiming is that it can be anything you make it. BUT you have to be willing to do the work, step up to the plate, hear feedback about your own behavior, and offer it as well. It isn't a one way street.<br /><br />I have noticed that some people posting things against Reclaiming on this page are also commenting on the Reclaiming community yahoo groups. I wonder, will you continue to post and follow the conversations on these lists even though you are so obviously unhappy with this tradition.<br /><br />Why follow the conversations of a group you don't want to be involved with. Is it only because of a need to stir the shit?<br /><br />If it doesn't serve you it is totally ok to move on and find a tradition that does. The tradition doesn't have to change to meet one person's needs or expectations, but evolve, grow, and match the needs of the larger changing culture.<br /><br />There are obviously a lot of former Reclaimers (and current ones too) who are living with a chip on their shoulder, still dwelling in the situations of the past. It's time to let it go and move forward.<br /><br />Oh and Sparky - I have found your responses to be so negative, baiting, and ugly, that I am keeping myself anonymous because I feel the need to protect myself. No doubt you will use this as another way to show how Reclaiming is manipulative and shady. Of course what is important to remember is that I speak only for myself and not for the Reclaiming Tradition....as is true for anyone who is posting.<br /><br />Blessings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-21081854416820293912012-08-30T13:01:27.375-07:002012-08-30T13:01:27.375-07:00S, thanks for posting about your experience.
Oddl...S, thanks for posting about your experience.<br /><br />Oddly, this person settled into the cabin I was already set up in at D5, which I thought was strange. Over the course of the few days we were there, I considered bringing this (and another incident of this person called in "unethical" on a public list when talking about something she knew nothing about). I took a wait-and-see attitude.<br /><br />Some while later the subject of this person having lived for a while in your area arose. She mentioned the Pagan Pride Day where we danced a spiral. She also told me a bit of her troubled personal history, which made me feel some sympathy for her. WRT to her time in your area, she said she split in a hurry because the relationship she was in there was abusive. I can certainly understanding hightailing it out of an abusive relationship in a big hurry. She never looked back.<br /><br />Unfortunately, neither did she make any attempt to return any of the money she'd collected by way of deposits for her class.<br /><br />As I said, I did report this situation to two of her mentors. They were the ones who told her to back off on the public list where she'd called me unethical a few years earlier. No apology came, of course, but at least the conversation stopped.<br /><br />One of those mentors asked me what she (the offender) could do to make things right with me. I said maybe a public apology on that same list, but even then I wasn't sure. I try to conduct myself with some honor and take some pride in that fact, so it can be hard for me to let go of an insult, particularly such a public one. (I might add that no one on the list ever said one word in my defense after that insult. That should have told me something.)<br /><br />Since the time of the public insult <i>and</i> the running off with deposit money this person has taught in SF and at WitchCamps.<br /><br />I ask again: <b>how does this example evidence any accountability on behalf of the trad?</b><br /><br />As to the matter of all this history and our winding up sharing a cabin at D5, I decided, based on the personal history she shared with me, that nothing would be served by my bringing it up to her at this point in time. I suspect she's even forgotten it ever happened.<br /><br />The same is true of the other incidence of lack of accountability I mentioned here: I suspect the person who asked PP to reserve the venue forgot s/he had even done so.Broomstick Chronicleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11217890674112142957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-17278852380514498362012-08-30T12:52:11.010-07:002012-08-30T12:52:11.010-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Broomstick Chronicleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11217890674112142957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-2774475191192613652012-08-30T08:53:07.235-07:002012-08-30T08:53:07.235-07:00I am one of those persons Macha is referring to in...I am one of those persons Macha is referring to in her post. I was the one who had put trust and belief in "Mover" BECAUSE of their attachment to Reclaiming. Because this was MY personal experience that Macha was accurately accounting on this episode of her blog, I can back up 100% of that example. This person was representing Reclaiming, and I do beleive although have no way to prove, that the money was taken under false pretense in order to "skip town" and leave several of us empty handed with empty promises. This really tainted my whole perspective of Reclaiming. Is this how their loosely structured tradition works? What do you do? You call the elder who is your friend and bring up the concern. This "Mover" came into our community, built up trusts and friendships, and then just dissapeared. What Macha has recounted is from MY personal experience and sharing it with her. It is absolute truth and I am glad it has been brought into the light. Being that this "Mover" is still apparently a very active part of Reclaiming, it is bothersome and if I was an elder of this tradition, I would want accountability of situations in which the tradition she co-founded is being reperesented.Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-3589366795928287012012-08-29T14:29:29.677-07:002012-08-29T14:29:29.677-07:00Indeed, Macha, I can imagine, both the state of af...Indeed, Macha, I can imagine, both the state of affairs and the reaction / resistance to the statement you signed. (Similar things have gone on in the academic world since well before I was born, and I turn 70 in a few days.) Robert Mathiesenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09189466855334778278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-66362630744951028972012-08-29T13:39:16.591-07:002012-08-29T13:39:16.591-07:00Thanks, Robert. I actually had re-scanned (not re...Thanks, Robert. I actually had re-scanned (not really reread) this last night, but didn't recognize the teachers' cell stuff because I'd left that cell years before.<br /><br />As I've mentioned before, I think, I had found myself a relatively comfortable place on the periphery. I could avoid meetings and all the tedium and dysfunction found in them, and yet remain more or less a part of the trad. No longer!<br /><br />Some years later there arose the ICT, which originally meant Independent Camp Teachers, formed by disaffected WitchCamp teachers (Oak, Anne Hill, Thorn, et al.). Then they asked me to join, since all but one were in the SF Bay Area. When I did, I asked them to change the name to Independent <i>Craft</i> Teachers. We issued a statement about teachers not sleeping with students (at WCs in particular) because at some camps this was fairly common. Even the statement, and asking others to sign in agreement with it, caused quite a stir.<br /><br />Of course, since I have been prevented from teaching at WitchCamps (a subject to be explored in a subsequent blog entry), it didn't affect me. That said, I was a fairly prominent public figure in the trad at that time, so I guess my name may have given the statement more weight, don't know. In any case, I agreed with the statement so I signed it with the others. Protests among WC folks ensued. You can imagine.Broomstick Chronicleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11217890674112142957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-10986032035952868152012-08-29T04:04:33.983-07:002012-08-29T04:04:33.983-07:00It's the post titled "Same As It Ever Was...It's the post titled "Same As It Ever Was," and here is the link:<br /><br />http://gnosiscafe.com/gcblog/2008/04/20/same-as-it-ever-was/Robert Mathiesenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09189466855334778278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-59192211147660097162012-08-29T03:33:20.103-07:002012-08-29T03:33:20.103-07:00Robert, can you perhaps provide a link to Anne Hil...Robert, can you perhaps provide a link to Anne Hill's April '08 blog post? I can't find it. I did, however, find this handy dandy reference to her Reclaiming-focused blogs: http://gnosiscafe.com/gcblog/posts-on-reclaiming/ So, so many of them are relevant here!<br /><br />Plus, I'm blown away at some of the things I said. Makes me feel all the more foolish. ::sigh::Broomstick Chronicleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11217890674112142957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-65997576256419141002012-08-28T22:41:51.005-07:002012-08-28T22:41:51.005-07:00@ the Anonymous who took classes with Starhawk way...@ the Anonymous who took classes with Starhawk way back in the '70s:<br /><br />There is a telling entry which Anne Hill posted on her Blog o' Gnosis way back on April 20, 2008. <br /><br />To summarize what she wrote (I have no independent knowledge of the situation), the Bay Area teachers' cell was split into two factions, neither of which trusted or would even talk with the other. Anne and another Witch spent months of effort on arranging a meeting between the two factions, with a neutral facilitator, to work through the issues that divided them. The night before the meeting, Starhawk sent around an email saying that this meeting should really focus on something else, and others quickly picked up on her suggestion. "Months of preparation were tossed out the window," and the two factions (Anne wrote) were not able to work through their differences then or later.<br /><br />When I first read this awful story, back in 2008, I simply thought, how clueless and clumsy of Starhawk to hijack this particular meeting, and how unfortunate for Reclaiming that she did so. <br /><br />But as the present thread has developed on Macha's blog (and before that on the PNC-Minnesota Bureau's blog), I have been impelled to rethink my first impression of what Starhawk did, and to revise my estimate of her as a person. <br /><br />Starhawk is a highly intelligent person, and she also has a profound and sophisticated understanding of power and how it can be used. I now ask myself: could it have served her own hidden purposes *deliberately* top derail all Anne's efforts toward healing the rift between those two factions? <br /><br />In the sixth post on this thread I wrote about the natural tendency of groups to coalesce around a single leader and to drive out rivals to the leader, as well as victims of the group or the leader and all those who speak uncomfortable truths to the group. This is a natural process, albeit an unpleasant one. <br /><br />But it can be exploited by any subtle leader to consolidate her own power, and such a leader will also have a vested interest in dividing to conquer: it will often not be in that leader's interest to heal rifts between factions. <br /><br />Here is one of the maxims that such a leader relies on: <br /><br />"Sincerity is the key! People judge truth by sincerity. If you can fake sincerity, you can do pretty much anything with anyone."<br /><br />Robert Mathiesenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09189466855334778278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-78199406662013645742012-08-28T21:59:27.322-07:002012-08-28T21:59:27.322-07:00Macha (Broomstick Chronicles) wrote: "I had a...Macha (Broomstick Chronicles) wrote: "I had always considered that a Witch's word was inviolate."<br /><br />Indeed! And not just a Witch, but any magician. If your own words do not have the power to bind even you, how can you expect them to have any power over anyone or anything else. I find it very hard to respect anyone who does not scrupulously keep his or her word.<br /><br />Robert Mathiesenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09189466855334778278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-71453804206230732612012-08-28T21:44:41.159-07:002012-08-28T21:44:41.159-07:00Gwion wrote: "Happy to take this discussion ...Gwion wrote: "Happy to take this discussion with you off of Macha's blog. I'd like to hear more."<br /><br />Discussions such as ours really have to be conducted in full daylight. To move this one off list would be something of a betrayal, I think.<br /><br />(My replies have been delayed as I've been away on vacation.)Robert Mathiesenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09189466855334778278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19158895.post-2213624004615918132012-08-28T21:41:49.642-07:002012-08-28T21:41:49.642-07:00@ Helen/Hawk
Indeed, Reclaiming began as a group ...@ Helen/Hawk<br /><br />Indeed, Reclaiming began as a group of people (including Starhawk), without a clear center or single leader, whose work evolved into a tradition. But it takes an almost superhuman effort on the part of *everyone* in the group for the group to remain leaderless as the decades roll on. It beggars belief that any group has ever managed to pull the trick off for as long as 30 years and more. I would sooner believe a person who says he has seen pigs fly. <br /><br />It's easy to keep the myth going, so long as leadership and centers of power remain somewhat hidden. But myth is never a simple reflection of reality. When it is a question of power, myth can often be a mighty tool of exploitation, abuse and control.Robert Mathiesenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09189466855334778278noreply@blogger.com